My human rights lawyer mate is worried. He is quite plumbed in to the left wing protest community, having defended rioters, protesters and sundry Trots throughout his career. He won’t reveal his sources but he is concerned that it is all going to kick off next week for the G20. He talks about carefully crafted battleplans to outwit and outmanoeuvre those trying to facilitate peaceful protest. I should point out that despite his politics being Of The Left he is not stupid enough to think that rioting is the way to get the point across.
I am a Voltaireist. “I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” But freedom of speech and freedom of riot are not the same thing. Peaceful marches and excuses to smash other people’s property up are not the same thing.
Democracy is not simply a case of majority rule. In a democracy even people with unpleasant and unpopular views are rightly free to express them. People whose views are so out of line with the prevailing consensus that they could never hope to win a popular vote are still free to argue their point of view until they’re blue in the face. Minorities of one should not be prevented from airing their eccentric or far-out opinions.
But politely arguing one’s corner is not the same as bringing thousands of thugs in to town to break stuff. I may not be a Trotskyite, a Marxist or an anti-capitalist but I am happy to hear their arguments. I am not happy for them to come in to my city to cause chaos and hurt people. I may not agree with the aims or process of the G20 summit but I will defend the government’s right to hold such a pointless conference without the metropolis going up in smoke.
In a democracy it is predominantly the state’s, but also everyone’s, duty to defend the peace. Only when the peace is entrenched can we have a mature debate about the politics. When there are bullies and thugs in the background there cannot be a proper democratic discussion. When the strong dominate the weak, the quietest voices cannot be heard. We must all do our bit, however small, to defend our peace and democracy. Whether that means manning the long shields or actively shunning these protests, we must all pitch in. If rioters are allowed to call the shots we all lose.
In our society we tend to outsource our security to specialists rather than get directly involved ourselves. So if you are in London next week carry on as normal. Go to Starbucks or Pret as you normally would. Don’t feel intimidated by the threat of violence at the hands of those who would ban Nike Airs, pin-stripe suits and flown-in strawberries. And when you see our peace officers in their silly hats or paramilitary get-up give them a smile and a nod. Buy them a coffee or one of their five a day. They are the thin blue line between democracy and chaos. That line must hold.
All Systems Go!
This is a nasty view to take, but I’d rather this G20 summit was remembered for rioting rather than that replusive man in No. 10 strutting in front of the media in his last-ditched attempt to salvage his wretched government.
Sorry if that means yours are amongst the windows that get smashed in.
OK Dave this is where we disagree. You see if we let once bunch of people smash things up then where does it stop? What if I decide I don’t like your politics and decide to smash your windows? I dislike Brown and his pathetic posturing as much as the next man but we have a system for removing him without people getting hurt.
Well said, Blue. Though it would be nice if we had some way of invoking the system for removing Brown!
(or, for that matter, to have insisted on the use of the system for installing Brown in the fist place… but that is a different issue)
P I am all for arguing about whether the system works as well as it might. I agree that the system must be flawed to have allowed someone to take the reins without any kind of public consultation. But that doesn’t mean its OK for people who don’t like him to set fire to things.
Exactly!
If for no other reason that the chances are that the things set fire to will not be Brown’s….
“I’d rather this G20 summit was remembered for rioting rather than that replusive man in No. 10 strutting in front of the media in his last-ditched attempt to salvage his wretched government.”
I’d rather it was remembered for Brown strutting on the stage and no-one, no-one at all, paying him any attention or taking up any of his policies…
Mind you, Julia, that’s been happening for months now and no-one in the media has realised.
Lol! True
[...] Riots Are Not Democracy [...]
Here we go. Civil Contingencies Act invoked. Democracy suspended forthwith.
Wrong message conveyed. Wrong people listened too – as usual.
I’m glad to see the Hannan video has gone viral at least. The American media are taking it seriously even if ours aren’t. There is hope.
Using agents provocateurs in peacefully demonstrating crowds is a standard technique. That’s why the people of eastern Germany were so bravely peaceful, led by their churches, and so controlled – they policed their own demonstrations to contain them. The Countryside marchers here marshalled their millions magnificently. I believe Brown’s regime is determined to provoke violence in any demonstration they cannot prevent. I wouldn’t trust any of the leftie-grouplets organised demonstrations either – they’re strategy-of-terror infiltrated, as any fule no.
EK – I thought you were more intelligent than that.
HG – I wholeheartedly agree. I don’t think the Trots realise how much rioting damages their cause. The trick with any “movement” is to convince enough people that lots of people are on the same side and let a critical mass develop. A few hundred rioters just shows that there aren’t many who agree. Protesters should be restrained and of course the authorities should be as well.
Well …
We had PACE 84 introduced basically at the behest of rioters.
We had the Poll Tax removed … at the behest of rioters.
We had the Good Friday Agreement introduced … at the behest of murderers.
We have radical Muslims allowed extraordinary freedoms to foment hatred … under the threat of violence.
Violence works, I’m afraid. But this time round I think Nu Lab are so desperate to cling to power that they’ll use anything in their means to keep it. A summer of disorder and who knows what they’ll do.
Those four issues I mention were minority interests.
The Poll Tax resistance ?
Indeed. Look at how unfair council tax is now. As far as I’m aware most people were happy with the PT. Most people UK people did NOT turn up in Clapham that day. Similar numbers turned out for the Countryside Alliance march and they were totally ignored. The difference ? The CA didn’t turn violent.
I was at both demos btw.
That was not my point at all EK. I just don’t buy all this tin hat bollocks about Labour just waiting for an excuse to abolish the country.
Intelligent ? Mois ???
Whoever gave you that impression !
We miss each other’s points here entirely. In answer to another blogger who is insistant that there is a man behind the curtain (Wizard of Oz) I suggested that he was looking at the conspiracy issue through the wrong end of the telescope.
There is no conspiracy (for one thing no-one’s that clever to play such a long ball game) What we have is a meme. Allow me to explain:
Ideologies were adopted by university students in the sixties. They thought they’d dropped them once they’d ventured into the real world of work and responsibility – unwittingly they’ve carried these ideologies in their subconsciousness and they emerge reflexively in decision making now that they are in positions of power. A little bit like Manchurian Candidates.
The default mode of the ruling class is to revert to programmed instincts which are anti-British and anti-democratic. Many still have that image of Che impressed indelibly in their minds through a romantic haze of cheap wine and pot.
The meme (please google the true meaning of ‘meme’) has evolved into its own being – with its own mind and its own immune system. That immune system excludes those who don’t support the meme fully by excluding those athiest (and even agnostic) to it by ruining careers. Only those that reinforce the meme get to the top. It is rather like the amorphous ‘mind’ that controlls an ant colony.
This way the default mode of the current establishment is to revert to the common room. Every crisis, every failure they seize upon to reinforce the meme. The meme is a negative one and thrives on failure. The meme hates autonomy, independance and free thought – this is manifest in every government policy over the last ten years. Such freedoms threaten the meme.
But there is nothing clever or organised about this – Victorianism was another meme. When I read books on our Empire I see that it was largely and small underlying ideology assisted by an awful lot of luck – and so new societies are created and not all of them good. This new one in Britain most certainly isn’t.
That the Civil Contingencies Act exists at all attests to the oppressive tendancies of our Government. And I think they’re arrogant and self-rightious enough to invoke it.
This is the way to the Gulags. Not through the the present incumbants, I hasten (at heart I think they mean well) – but by the backlash that will follow.
Now you are making more sense Mr EK. I don’t disagree with a lot of that which is why so much of Labour’s legislation must come off the books asap. But then why do you of all people get yourself into a spin over the G20 leading directly to communism without even passing “Go”?
Intelligentsia with their own agendas have always manipulated/hi-jacked well intentioned demonstrators. I’ve been in many a bad demo where a lot of largely innocent, well meaning and respectable participants ended up in a mad scramble and got lifted for `threatening behaviour` etc etc brought about primarily because they just happened to be there where `someone else kicked something off`. It is always about someone manipulating someone else, the police included. Its all part of the subversives rent-a-crowd game played by clever, cynical people. The right to demonstrate is fundamental but one has to acknowledge that this will include being manipulated in someone elses nastier agenda, simply by being there.
I didn’t mean to sound like I was in a spin about G20
I think that Nu Lab are running out of reasons to exist. They’ll take a chance on anything that will give them a few extra weeks.
As it is I think the Police are savvy enough to lock-down and divide rioters. I’m more convinced that we’ll be in trouble by another tactic – random attacks on banks and govt buildings throughout the land.
The way for ordinary people to go if they want to make an impact is tax strikes – illegal but peaceful and effective nonetheless.
I think that Nu Lab are running out of reasons to exist. They’ll take a chance on anything that will give them a few extra weeks.
Yes, but I can’t bring myself to believe they would deliberately nuke London in order to do so. I am confident that the police will deal with all this very well. They have improved a lot since your day
I’ve heard they now recruit garden gnome fetishists in the Met. Especially part-timers
I think I would have gnomes if I had a garden. Not sure there would be a space for that on the application form though…
When you say “riots”, don’t you mean “government sponsored march”? (click my name for details).
[...] On Twitter, Fraser Speirs rightly said “this collapsing government makes the final days of Major’s government look like a golden age of morality past.” Iain Dale has been trying to hold back undeserved human sympathy for Jackie Smith – and asking when the last vote of No Confidence was (Come on David Cameron – the people want one!) Even Her Majesty The Queen wouldn’t stand up for the Prime Minister. Also, worth a re-link, Blue Eyes predicts a riot and is not happy about it. [...]