Comments on: Riot!

By: Blue Eyes

Blue Eyes — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 13:34:16 +0000

PS the point about good officers making bad shooting decisions is one of the many reasons I absolutely do not support the general arming of police.

By: Blue Eyes

Blue Eyes — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 13:30:37 +0000

Agreed. But did the peaceful protest turn into a riot or did opportunists come in behind the protesters? We just don’t know. I am trying not to conflate but I can only go on what I have read.

Just seen that link via Twitter, was about to link to his site!

By: Buenosam

Buenosam — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 13:28:09 +0000

But it’s important not to conflate the two different events: a protest about a man shot by police that turned into a riot – which demands questions about the police’s relationship with people in the area, and maybe a bit of carefully spent public money; and a bunch of opportunists who were, as you said, ‘acting rationally’ when they went a-looting.

There also may be some questions to be asked about the police and firearms – it reminds of that thing David Simon wrote in ‘Homicide’ about the myth that a good cop will never accidentally shoot someone – but as you say, it all needs to wait until we know what on earth happened.

Really good blog post about it from a copper here, incidentally: http://wintsays.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/tottenham-enfield-brixton-polcing-and-public-disorder/

By: MTG

MTG — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 12:39:57 +0000

Yes, let us wait for the facts, Blue. A caution I advocated on Gadget which was greeted with customary police abuse. Nevertheless I am almost impatient for a full independent report from someone of Freddy Patel’s standing.

By: Blue Eyes

Blue Eyes — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 12:02:43 +0000

To be fair, we know what first accounts told us and mainstream media outlets (supposedly more reliable) reported that the officer had been shot first. However I am more cynical than some so I will await the full results of the investigation. However I am not as cynical as you, Dr Melvin. Or at least I am more willing to change my view depending on the facts.

By: MTG

MTG — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:59:34 +0000

Of course we all know what happened….we were given the very best early accounts, made public on police blogs, that “Duggan tried to murder a police officer and got what he deserved”.

I slept in today – did I miss ammendments of any import?

By: Blue Eyes

Blue Eyes — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 11:00:18 +0000

We don’t know what happened, that is why there will be an investigation. When we know what happened then we can decide who did what right or wrong.

On a secondary point, even if Mr Duggan was shot dead with no justification whatsoever, even if he was shot dead for the sole reason that he was black, would rioting be the answer? Or would a criminal investigation and prosecution be the correct response.

The simple question is: do you want to live in a country with “due process” and “the rule of law” or a country where if something we don’t like happens we start setting light to Footlocker?

You idiot.

By: Paddy Fields

Paddy Fields — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 10:53:46 +0000

Why bother with the facts!! Duggan was contained in the back of a taxi by armed Police. That was monumentally stupid in a busy shopping area. Nobody has said, as yet, if he was armed. As no trophy has been produced then I suspect that he was not.
At least one Police gun was discharged. The bullet hit a WPC’s radio!! it could have gone anywhere. Do these Rambos get no training whatever??? There are more and more armed Police moving about nowadays. in years gone by requests to issue and carry had to be made and agreed. Now too many cops have handguns and hangovers!!
Was Duggan a wanted man? Was he being followed? or was he going about his business, in a taxi, when police decided to subject him to a stop and search, while waving their guns about??
Let’s have some facts!!

By: JuliaM

JuliaM — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 09:45:01 +0000

” Of course there are fewer jobs around, but for people with a bit of self-motivation there is always something productive to be doing..”

An ‘Indy’ article notes that ‘recent government figures show 54 chasing each job’. Strangely, they never seem to catch one…

By: Blue Eyes

Blue Eyes — Mon, 08 Aug 2011 08:29:04 +0000

Isn’t the broken window economic theory rather discredited these days?

However you are right in the main point, people have no sense of ownership of their local area if they have everything handed to them on a plate. I would never tear up my city because I work incredibly hard in order to pay to live here. Look what happens when you give people a “right” to cheap housing and handouts!